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Okay... I want to know.... What is going on with Tribe? For one, this tribe used to rock with posts, good bad or ugly it was moving messages. Now, its stagnant and looking like its forgotten.
i~brian
i~brian
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Re: WTF
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 2:43 PMI hate to place blame but I just got here so it wasn't me! -
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Re: WTF
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 3:36 PMtribe has been loading pages slow too
both work and home computers so I don't think its my connection -
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Re: WTF
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 4:29 PMI[m on tribe all day every day and other than the outages I haven't noticed anything off. -
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Re: WTF
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 7:13 PMit seems like the system can't handle the traffic during the lunch hours, weekdays & sometimes after about 4:30pm ~ the 'work crowd' seems to be too much for the current network to handle well
love all-ways,
mem
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Re: WTF
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 7:38 PMand why are there so many more outages now? i would think that a company like cisco would NOT have outages.... isn't networking their specialty?
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Re: WTF
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 7:41 PMDid Cisco get the go ahead to buy Tribe? Sorry if this sounds a little behind the times.
i~brian
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Re: WTF
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 9:43 PMSo, let me throw in where I'm at, and what I know from my side.
Cisco bought some of the technology, Tribe.net remains independent, with a skeleton staff: 3 full time employees and a couple of old-school Tribe employees (like me) who help out where we can outside of our day job off hours. I can't speak for what Cisco is doing, because I didn't go with the rest of the staff to Cisco.
Just within the past week I've started getting more involved, and here are my priorities:
* improve performance: we just added 2 new application servers (increasing the number from 6 to 8). I will also try to add another image server within a week, so that should help. I will also be looking into making database changes that will improve performance, especially on member homepages and some of the larger tribes/longer threads.
* bug fixes: Some hotmail users aren't getting emails from Tribe, some users are getting duplicate messages, and events are being expired too early. Mail digests were broken from July 5th to today, I think I just fixed that. The rest of these fixes should be pretty easy to knock out.
* disaster recovery/monitoring: I'm working with a couple of other folks to pinpoint the most frequent causes of page timeouts and unresponsiveness; both in the interest of decreasing their frequency and the impact that it has on users.
Now, the grain of salt that comes with this is that I'm only able to take care of these things after I get off of work, and that Tribe.net is currently short on resources. But the reason I'm writing this post is that i want folks to know that people who do care about Tribe are working on these things, and that as long as members help us understand what the priorities are, we will work on them.
thanks for reading, I'm interested in hearing your feedback. -
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Re: WTF
Mon, July 23, 2007 - 9:53 PMi appreciate the information, thank you for taking the time to reply.
i am seriously concerned about what the frequent outages mean... as a moderator of a large tribe here, i worry that one day tribe will stop coming online and all the tribe members will be disconnected to one another...
can you reassure me that frequent outages just means you are short of staff and not that tribe doesn't care if there are outages anymore? i can be very tolerant and supportive, so just let me know.
thanks -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 6:07 AMI havent been having many problems at all lately. Last month had several DONUT FREAKOUT!!! incidents. There does seem to be a problem with deleting posts. For example, let's say I was on a specific tribe and grew to "dislike" that tribe for various reasons. If I go to delete some threads I posted on that tribe it always times out. It works once in a great while but mostly it acts like it's trying to prevent the deletion as if Tribe doesnt want deletion of content. I was on this one tribe and had made considerable contributions to the content. After a few months I decided that certain people annoyed me BIGTIME and I didnt want to be a part of that group anymore. So I went in and deleted every thread I ever posted there as well as alot of relevant pictures which made up about 80% of the photo gallery of that tribe. In the past month I have tried to do the same thing on two other tribes and it doesnt work. I think if there is an option to delete content then that feature should actually work.
I thought this thread was more about this tribe specifically. I had joined a few weeks ago and forgotten as there havent been many recent posts. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 9:32 AMMr. M wrote:
>> I thought this thread was more about this tribe specifically.
First sentence in initial post:
i~brian wrote:
>> Okay... I want to know.... What is going on with Tribe?
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 1:16 PMDeleting is one of the most expensive operations on our site, both on the application level and in the database. We're not doing anything to prevent you from deleting the content; chances are that something is timing out in the guts of the system. I'm sorry that I don't have any better feedback, except to suggest that you try doing your deletes again in the off-hours or on the weekend.
In the distant past there have been situations where a single moderator has trashed an entire tribe in which the members wanted that data to remain, and I think in that case we may have intervened, but I don't remember the details right now. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 8:34 PMIf someone moderates a tribe don't they have that right? I have a tribe right now with 34 members. It's inactive and the last two posts are kind of the icing on the cake for me. I just want to kick everyone off the tribe and cancel it or change the name to something else. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 9:14 PMAnd that's why it was controversial. I just went back to look over my emails from this period, I'm pretty sure that the tribe in question had at least 500 members, and hundreds of threads. Today it has over 2,000 members, and about 1,500 threads. The reason that we became involved was that the Tribe had evolved beyond the moderator, and lots of people had contributed information that they really cared to keep.
I wasn't the person who chose to step in under those circumstances, but looking at how ti worked out in the end, I think I'd probably do the same. For a huge Tribe with lots of activity. For a small Tribe that's either dying slowly or spiraling out of control, I say it's yours to do with what you want.
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 1:09 PMThe frequent outages is just a lack of resources. I assure you that every time Tribe.net is completely down, I receive a text message to my phone, and that the other full time employee receives several. Tribe.net will never "just disappear". It certainly might blow up for a few days, but our current plan is to always get it back up as quickly as possible, learn from what happened, and do what we can to make sure it doesn't happen again.
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 1:41 PMthanks, i really needed that reassurance.
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 12:00 PMyes, thanx Jenni ~
that's the best info. I've had in a while!
love all-ways,
mem
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 12:35 PMSo, jenni, if I understood you correctly, has Cisco passed Tribe a much needed cash injection, but is otherwise not involved? Other than making use of the technology some place else?
Very nice to hear from you personally, thank you :-) -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 1:06 PMTribe.net remains independent, and Cisco is not involved in any way in the way it's run. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 2:16 PMI am happy that there is some true involvement with the operators of Tribe. Jenni, I know it must be hard work doing your day job and then doing Tribe in your off time. Years ago I was about to do that with AOL when it was in the hayday. I think I am happy that I didnt do that.
Is there anything in the works to draw more members? Of the tribes that I mod, none of them have the in/out put that they used to. Then again, what can we do as the MODS to inject life into our own tribes?
i~brian -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 6:04 PMWhat we're doing to draw more users to the site is:
* working to improve search engine rankings
* improving site performance
Brian (brian.tribe.net) and I were just discussing the other day that we consider moderators to be the most contributors on the site, both because moderators tend to contribute the most content and because they have the most impact on the general flavor of the Tribe culture and community.
So, we'd eventually like to add:
* moderator tools
The sticky thread functionality and a couple of other perqs were written before the transition, but are either buggy or don't have UIs. Hopefully we'll be able to dust those off and fix them up once we get a real plan of attack in place.
Back when I was moderating a couple of Tribes, I would try to generate participation by starting topics that I thought folks would respond to. Obviously, this worked better in some cases than others, but that's really all I knew to do. I would also personally follow up with members who had gotten into a fracas with each other in the Tribe, making sure that the sensitive folks wouldn't leave because of it, and helping them develop thicker skins.
What have other folks tried, and what seemed to work/not work? -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 6:11 PMI'm currently trying a new schedule of events, asking several members of my Tribe to participate something on a weekly basis. We have around 10 people who have agreed to participate and it's going quite well. Gives me even more time to keep the Tribe active and safe in the knowledge that there will be new threads started every day. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 6:28 PMi mainly just leave people to their own devices while contributing to the discussions when it seems relavant. there is no forcing activity, and i no longer solicit anyone to join, as there just isn't the activity. i think that all peaked in 2005.
one moderator tool i would like to see is the ability to bar someone from rejoining a tribe once they are kicked off for bad behaviour. i have the notification turned on to see who joins, but this does not prevent someone who has been kicked off from repeatedly rejoining. not that this has been a problem in any of my tribes for quite some time, but i still think that would be useful. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 8:01 PMGood info, Jenni.
It iz well ta read about the in an' output of tribe moderators
respected by tribe inc.
I still have concerns about deletion ov content an' accounts,
az executed by tribe employees,
probably swamped with myriad requests ta intervene
in tribal tiffs.
I don't read ov much gettin' offed today,
but I'm also not in any "adult" tribes. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 9:32 PMI've just written a couple of paragraphs, deleted them, and written a couple more, and I'm still not sure how to address your concerns. From the Ops standpoint, I never had to call the shots on what was mature or not mature, flag-worthy or not, although some folks got their fair change in opinions. I recognize that things have gotten out of hand in the past regarding the flagging of content, and while I think it's been getting better recently, I will admit that I have way less visibility into what's going on on that front now.
Sorry to be so unhelpful. i can ask into it, but it's not really my bailiwick.
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 8:30 PMbutter if it's public they can just come right back. If you change it to moderated they can't unless you let them. You probably know this already. I do this on certain tribes and have some that are public. I recently saw a moderator of one tribe tell this one guy that his tribe was a public tribe but if he rejoined he would report the guy to TOU. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 9:40 PMMr M wrote:
>> If you change it to moderated they can't unless you let them.
Actually, if your tribe is moderated, the general public has to request permission to the moderator to join. But they can also ask someone *in* the tribe already to invite them, and they will be in without your permission. You can get notification of this as it happens, so you can remove them if you want. But there are ways for members to get in without your permission.
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 10:42 PMMakes sense Jenni. About the larger tribes.
lobocita isnt there a setting that only new members can get in by requesting the moderator or by a moderator invitation? I've never set a tribe that way but think I know someone that has. Once in a while I get messages saying so & so has joined one of my tribes and I figure that is because someone else has invited them. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 10:52 PMright, tht is what i am referring to. -
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 11:01 PMI think there's a way to set it so people can only join through the moderator but not sure. I will try to find out tommorrow cuz it's time for me to hit the hay.
Snooooooooooooooz!!!!!!!!!!! : )
Laterz -
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Re: WTF
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 2:29 AMJenni: is there already a thread about the search function? If so, I'll post this there:
I am so glad to hear that you say you want to improve it. Since it is operated by google, I cannot find my answers/places to post my qustions/comments, cannot find tribes I Know they are there, and I certainly cannot find old posts where I want to look up something..
Its very infuriating and confusing.
Especially for new members. I have tried to coach new members several times, just getting them to find a tribe to join is a very confusing task,.. and the new members I have introduced, none of them have stumbled across more than three tribes to join, and activity is very low.
I live in Europe, and the Language barrier slows things down (most would like to join a primarily English speaking Network, but are much slower in figuring functions or just communicating), as well as not being so internet savvy as in the US. This makes it near impossible for European newbies.. -
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Re: WTF
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 10:03 AMtribe scraping works best anyway... they might as well just promote that
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Re: WTF
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 9:21 PMThe idea of banning problem tribe members is a great one, I hope you don't mind, I've created a new thread on the subject, since this one is getting a little long:
moderators.tribe.net/thread/...547c1029
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Re: WTF
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 10:57 AM"one moderator tool i would like to see is the ability to bar someone from rejoining a tribe once they are kicked off for bad behaviour. i have the notification turned on to see who joins, but this does not prevent someone who has been kicked off from repeatedly rejoining. not that this has been a problem in any of my tribes for quite some time, but i still think that would be useful."
You already can, but it's a hassle...
You turn off member invitation privileges and moderate the tribe closely.
I have to do this on a bigger tribe of mine, Naked Sun,
after frequent troll attacks trying to turn the tribe (nude sunbathers) into a sexually explicit tribe.
Now I don't let new accounts with incomplete profiles join.
However, the moderation page has a persistent bug, which Jenni and I have discussed... anyone else having this issue?
It used to be that on the request to join a moderated tribe page, the icon and name of the profile was visible.
It was handy to weed out the obvious alts and new accounts.
Currently, to view the profile, one must click on the "respond with message" link before seeing anything about the requester.
afterwards I usually open the profile and scan it for real life interactions... blog, tribe membership demographics, photo of one's self in gallery, etc.
Often I'll get more than 10 requests in a day, and then the added page click per profile starts to eat my time too much...
I don't like to sit on requests too long, but it's now slower to process the requests so they tend to stack up. I recently had 30+ requests built up.... it took about 45 minutes to clear down the list.
I don't know if permanent barring from a tribe will stop troll attacks, they may simply resort to fresh accounts to circumvent the control.
Active moderation has worked for me for years. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: WTF
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 11:04 AMi am agreed with you MT.... being a vigilant moderator in a world of trolls/alts helps even in large tribes. let's do the volunteer work that we can and leave jenni free to do the volunteer stuff that we can't. have jenni/coders spend the time that gets things working for a greater number of tribe members...
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Re: WTF
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 10:41 AM"Now, the grain of salt that comes with this is that I'm only able to take care of these things after I get off of work"
Thank you Jenni! -
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Re: WTF
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 11:11 AMI think I've found my 'calling' ~
moderator vigilance!
:)
love all-ways,
mem -
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Re: WTF
Thu, July 26, 2007 - 6:58 AM...if it ever seems daunting, go check out a larger 'community-mod' soc.site and the forums that are flooded, trolled and trashed nightly. Then thank our lucky stars for the relative civility that is Tribe.....
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