Is this for real, or is someone spoofing Mark's profile?
sanfrancisco.tribe.net/templa...ting.vm
Wendy
sanfrancisco.tribe.net/templa...ting.vm
Wendy
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 12:38 AMIt's real, he even has his tribe "t" back
and here is an article about it
www.siliconbeat.com/entries/...tion.html -
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 2:19 AMLet us pray. If he lives up to his promises, a lot of us might be able to come back here without that sour taste in our mouths. Plus, I must admit, I have an unworthy hope that Mark can make a go of it just to show up Jan, Ward, and the others who ran Tribe into the ground and alienated so many. -
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Unsu...
Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 9:38 AMThat Mark is such a cheeky rebel! What a naughty and subversive boy, typing that in his blog and all. I admire him. Playing to the crowd is what made my star turn! This will be fun to watch, perhaps his greatest role: rebuilding what he couldn't maintain to begin with.
I must say, though, that Jan should spank Mark's soft white behind before he does his walk of shame. -
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 9:42 AMTo late for that, Jan has already done his walk of shame. Actually, it was a little more like slinking over into a corner and letting us all leave for the day before finishing up with the new GM so he wouldn't actually have to see us as we left. -
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Unsu...
Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 9:44 AMBitter looks good on you, dear. -
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 9:56 AMWhat can I say, I'm just feeeling a little catty by this point. -
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Unsu...
Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 10:04 AMWill Mark Pincus be the Pied Piper of the Burning community, storming back into Triber's hearts and winning in the court of public opinion even if not in the bankrolls? Will the trolls have a field day? Will the upright Tribe community stand for the poor decorum exhibited by DiaTribe staffers attempting the public humiliation of Jan? Will New Tribe throw a party and give each attendee a ticket for their choice of domestic beer or boxed white wine? Will a shamed Jan bombard the Tribe site with nasty viruses and be further shamed when photos are published clearly showing his hand up my skirt?
TUNE IN AFTER THE BURN!
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 12:38 PMHmmmm, I will regard this as, if not good news, then at least as not necessarily bad news.
For me, the main question, and indeed pretty much the ONLY question, is what about those utterly dreadful, self-contradictory, outright irrrational, and capriciously enforced TOUs?
Also, will BDSM people still be considered human slime by senior Tribe management?
Starting with the great TOU debacle a while ago, senior Tribe management made it much more than very clear that they didn't want "our kind" around here. Since then, I have not been able to feel that either reading or posting to Tribe is a morally clean act for anyone engaged in any sort of alternative sexuality -- be it BDSM, poly, or what have you. I have occasionally gritted my teeth and done so anyway, and when I have posted I have also frequently encouraged people to take their eyeballs and their content over to www.free-association.net, where there is _NO_ doubt that we "alternative types" are genuinely welcome.
Before they changed their TOU in the dreadful way they did, I used to spend over an hour composing long, thoughtful essays for posting here. Since that change, there is not a fucking chance in hell that I would contribute to this place in that way. Since then, I have always felt slightly hypocritial for reading or posting on this site at all. I just can't see it as a morally clean act. Sometimes I do so anyway, and take a shower afterwards.
So I guess we'll have to see. If Mark (or whomever) makes it _unmistakenly_clear_ that "alternative types" like me are _genuinely_welcomed_ here -- not merely "tolerated" or "permitted" mind you, but genuinely welcomed, and I will be examing any language they use on this point very, very closely for any signs of ambiguity or evasiveness on that specific point, then I'll see.
It would also help if they were to explicitly, publicly apologize for and disown the past unfair and discriminatory policies.
If they want to move it back to being the magical, very hip place that it was, great. OTOH, if the new management wants it to continue of have all the advertureousness and free-spiritedness of -- to use their own phrase -- an "online Starbucks" then, as the old saying goes, include me out.
Until they do those things, I'll continue to do everything I can to encourage people to go over to www.free-association.net and to stay the hell away from this place. Remember folks, it's all about "eyeballs to advertisers" -- and given how things currently are here on Tribe I just cannot make myself feel morally clean about providing my eyeballs and encouraging others to provide theirs, for free, for Tribe's profitability.
Why, oh why, should I contribute, for free, to the well-being of a for-profit corporation that considers me an undesirable? This is especially true now, when a quite adequate, explicitly welcoming alternative, is very readily available. More to the point, why should you?
Very sincerely,
Jay Wiseman, JD
Please join me over at www.free-association.net
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 1:03 PMJay, haven't you noticed the long, in depth discussions all over the BDSM tribes in the past five weeks? have you noticed almost no activity on free-ass in the past threee months? Have you noticed where Damian repeated at least thrice that tribe never did and never will censor verbal content?
I will believe that Mark has navigated all the corporate mazery to retake this company when I see an Official Announcement from the Tribe Management. otherwise I will believe this has been an extrememly well engineered hack.
Whenever I comunicated with Mark he wrote in complete sentences with capitalization. This hidden listing sounds nothing like the MArk Pincus I have communicated with. -
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 3:45 PM>>haven't you noticed the long, in depth discussions all over the BDSM tribes in the past five weeks?<<
I don't know about Jay, but me, not so much. I'm a member of 15 kink tribes, and in the last 30 days only 11 have had any activity at all. Of those, only 5 have had more than 10 posts in that time period. SF BDSM, BDSM and Polyamory, and Advanced Rope art were among the handful that seemed to have serious dicussions going on. Most of the rest of the posts were event announcements, introductions, and lightweight threads like the one about Oprah Winfrey's genitals.
It is possible that I've lost touch with the most active tribes. They're harder to find these days, since many of them didn't dare make themselves public under Jan's management.
>>Have you noticed where Damian repeated at least thrice that tribe never did and never will censor verbal content?<<
I've noticed Tribe staffers saying all kinds of things in the last year. In many cases I know from personal experience that they were at best stretching the truth, and in some cases lying outright.
Whatever Damien might have said, the fact is that verbal content that "contains, encourages, advocates, or expresses" anything having to do with BDSM is explicitly forbidden by Tribe's TOU. So I'm deeply skeptical when they say "Sure, we've got that rule, but we've never enforced it and we never will. We promise." I can't help wondering, if they've never used that rule and they swear they never will, then why don't they just remove it?
>>I will believe that Mark has navigated all the corporate mazery to retake this company when I see an Official Announcement from the Tribe Management. otherwise I will believe this has been an extrememly well engineered hack.<<
It's possible. But if so then Silicon Beat got hacked as well, since they're reporting it as fact. And for whatever it's worth, Jan and most of the "old guard" are no longer listed as part of Tribe's management team: sanfrancisco.tribe.net/templa...bout.vm -
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 4:13 PM"...and lightweight threads like the one about Oprah Winfrey's genitals. "
"lightweight"...?
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 4:31 PMLOL. Sorry, not meaning to cast aspersions. Still, I think it's fair to say that a thread that starts off "Is it kinky to write poetry about Oprah's pussy?" is intended just for fun, not for profound discussion. -
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 4:52 PMOh sure, you say that now, but are you aware that Oprah's pussy and her asshole were recently implicated in a hostage situation and that only sniper's were able to finally bring the criminal snatch down? Grim, man. Frickin' grim.
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 5:28 PMyou mean that the above conversation was censored?
Paul, did you see the hundreds-long threads in The Citadel, BDSM NEwbies & New to BDSM (uncensored)?Compared to the maybe 60 total posts in all the group I belong to on free-ass, which bored me so much I left.
Why would Mark post a teeeny little listing and not display it prominantly across the board? he Would have that abilioty. Not to mention posting it as a POSTING in Mark's Update, not to mention that I don't believe Mark would be so publicly derisive of jan, et al.,whatever his Personal feelings.
Then again, I have been known to be mistaken in the past. -
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 5:42 PM
Free Ass is admittedly smaller, much smaller, than Tribe, but it's growing, and it's genuinely welcoming of "our kind" so I'd much rather hang out over there. Plus, I've been in some very good conversations on that site.
I'd _much_ rather hang out on a smaller but growing site than hang out here and knowingly, intentionally contribute to the profitability of a corporation that thinks I'm slime. (How do you think it feels about you?)
Remember, it's "eyeballs to advertisers." Everytime you read something on this site, and every time you post something on this site, you willingly contribute to the profitability of a corporation that has repeatedly made it very clear that it doesn't want "your kind" around. Given that stark reality, is _any_ conversation held here morally and ethically OK for a kinkster to participate in or even read?
I grudgingly made an exception in the case of the recent breath control discussion on the SF Citadel tribe (itself an officially unwelcome entity here) because there the issue was of life and death importance. I'll make a limited exception here because the more consciousness I can raise regarding the morally and ethically dubious nature of a kinkster's contributing to Tribe's profitability, the better. It seems that they do NOT want a light shined on that particular factoid, which is exactly where I plan to shine the brightest light that I can.
Remember, this place has repeatedly stated that they don't want BDSM discussed. This being the case, how on earth can we BDSMers justify reading or posting here at all? (I can make a case for it under the very limited circumstances I described above, otherwise, I just don't see how reading or posting here is a moral or ethical thing for a BDSMer to do.)
Very sincerely,
Jay Wiseman, JD
www.free-association.net
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Fri, September 1, 2006 - 1:47 PM>>you mean that the above conversation was censored? <<
I'm sorry, but I can't tell if you mean this seriously or not. So I'll just repeat what I wrote before: if Tribe tells me that they have never enforced their explicit ban on BDSM, and never will enforce it, I have to wonder why they refuse to do away with it. Doesn't that seem like a reasonable thing to wonder about?
>>Paul, did you see the hundreds-long threads in The Citadel, BDSM NEwbies & New to BDSM (uncensored)?<<
Yes. However one needs to look closely. For example, on the Citadel Tribe one ot the largest recent threads is "Where is the SEX?" with 142 replies. But the thread was started a year ago, and of those 140+ replies only 20 were made in the last month. The Citadel Tribe is probably the most active kink tribe of them all.
>>Why would Mark post a teeeny little listing and not display it prominantly across the board?<<
You've corresponded with him, I gather. So the best way to get your answer would be to write to him and ask. Meanwhile, as I pointed out, Jan and the old management team are no longer listed on Tribe's staff page, and this has been posted to Mark's own profile blog:
markpincus.typepad.com/markpi...be.html
"so this is a little late as the blog world caught my post on tribe thursday night. but for anyone out there who doesnt read techcrunch, fred wilson or silicon beat, yes i have stepped back in at tribe."
I suppose it's possible that someone hacked his account and faslified that posting. And it's possible neither Mark nor anyone at Tribe has gone in and fixed that in the 5 days since it happened. But it's looking less and less likely all the time.
Anyway, this is all turning much less friendly than I'd prefer to be at the moment. So since I'm just pointing to the same things I pointed out before, for the most part, I'll leave it at this.
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Mon, August 28, 2006 - 7:45 PMQ, in all fairness, you're only in a rather small number of Associations, and most of them haven't been high-traffic of late. Overall, the site's actually been picking up a lot lately activity-wise. One thing you have to remember on a site with the membership of free-ass is that we're still at the point where, if you feel there's a conversational lack, you shoud start something.
Like Jay said (and thanks for the vote of confidence, Jay! :-) ) we DO want all the alt-people over on FA. Just go over to free-association.net and read the main article on the home page to see what—and whom—we're aiming for.
Another thing to remember is that, as impressive and kewl as Mark Pincus is, he's still talking about a "re-capitalization" of Tribe (e.g. chasing more venture capital after never having created any kind of profit either during his own or Jan Gullette's "reigns"), Tribe is still ad-supported, and still a for-profit corporation subject to pressure from its investors or corporate "suitors" (as seen with the disastrous TOU and UI changes over the last 9 mo.).
And even if he *does* intend to bring about a true resurgence of the Tribe we all knew and loved, it's still going to take time and the aforementioned capital, which may not be so easy to get.
So come on over (or back, as the case may be) and make something happen with us. We're not going away.
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Re: Tribe Taken Back Over by Mark?
Tue, August 29, 2006 - 6:26 PMwho knows
if he's keeping his whole counsel as to what he plans to do... it's pointless to speculate
a new direction? well that could be good or bad depending on your perspective, all you can do is wait and find out...
