theres already merger-rumbling in some tribes I'm involved in, so moderators please cast some "votes" on this stuff.
I'm seeing this & related topics all over moderators & tribe ideas, so I'm cross posting this:
When existing tribes realize they are redundant, what should the goal be?
To create a single big tribe with multiple co-moderators/co-creators?
to create one tribe with only one moderator?
(another thread mentions possible creator/moderator separation, multiple moderators. I like both ideas)
[and heres another function: cross-linking threads that a post spans!]
to leave the tribes separate but link them so that membership in one automatically generates membership in the others?
automatic (or optional) cross-posting?
this would allow the creation of meta-tribes, families of tribes that deal with related but still somewhat distnct topics - I guess the function could be pretty much like individuals making friends - one moderator sees a related tribe, sends an invite to the other moderator offering to create a meta-tribe. if the second one clicks "agree", then the system creates a new meta-tribe. could be very cool!
then theres all the same questions about creator/moderator issues (who has control of whether a new tribe gets accepted into a meta-tribe, etc)
then also would come the inevitable question of: could one tribe be a member of two different meta-tribes?
I'm not sure if idea of sub-tribes is more or less synonymous with meta-tribes, or close enough..
Do we need one functon? or two? or three?
my vote is to allow both tribe-merger and meta-tribes.
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Mon, November 3, 2003 - 6:14 AMALLOW BOTH!! Presently I'm finding that a lot of folks who come to my Arts, Entertainment and Fetish tribes would love the opportunity of cross-linking to similar tribes, but the best that I can do from my end is put some recommended links at the bottom of my tribe intro. They can't click on them and go directly there, but they can at least cut & paste them into their navigation bar which will take er... an extra 5 seconds or something to get them there!! If the links we provide could at least be 'active' that would be a nice start.
As for the meta-tribes debate, it's really up to EACH individual moderator to create their own network based on genre-specific interest groups. If they then wish to become cross-linked with like-minded groups they should definitely have THAT option available to them. I also think it might be useful, (since I'm constantly asked), to have a list in the intro of each tribe, listing ALL the other tribes moderated by the moderator of the tribe you're in.. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Mon, November 3, 2003 - 9:54 AMi think merging is a bad idea... different people will be drawn to different tribes...based on the discussions posted... just because they are on the same subject does not mean the it will bare the same content... you could always create a thread alerting folks to another tribe that shares the same subject...i know i belong to a few that are all on the same subject and post in most of them.. if i am finding that i have little interest in a particular tribe... i will leave it -
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Re: tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Mon, November 3, 2003 - 12:44 PMI think that simpler solutions are generaly better ones. Allow optional Merging of tribes, with one moderator (largets original tribe?). Don't want them to moderat your tribe? Don't merge. I was just posting that very similar looking tribes can be different beasts. So I think merging should be allowed, but not pressured on people.
I got totally lost on the meta-sub-link-redundant posting-whatchamahoozit that people were discussing. Here's my thing: I don't want to read a post that somebody put in the R/C Cars forum, just cuz they are also in the RC Trucks tribe. If I wanted that, I'd join the R/C Cars tribe. Sounds like spam. It seems like it would be easy to just let people advertise a number of links on a forum page, just like my homepage is on my personal profile. And if the link is to another tribe.net site, then it gets a happy thumbnail of the tribe. It also seems to be easy to do because you wouldn't have to coordinate communication between the tribes. If the mod thought it was linkable, they link.
Additionally, I think that a spot for fave links should be on every profile, if people want them, just like on each forum. -
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Re: tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 12:12 AM
I definitely like the fave-list idea
and i can see auto-cross-posting is probably not that great of an idea.
auto-cross-membership probably not good, either - tho meta-tribe membership, that gave you membership in all the tribes in that meta-tribe would cool, I think. (I find my list of tribes is becoming a lot to slog thru already - it would be cool to have an indexing system that simplefied it.)
*optional* cross-posting might be good, tho. to get it on two different relevent lists. (only if they are in the same meta-tribe - that gives moderators some control of who can cross-post into their tribes)
better yet might be if there were some way of making a single post into a crosslink between threads. as in, the post doesn't "appear" in two places, it *links* those two places.
This could be a function that the author activated when writing it, or maybe even that others could attach as well. the result is that a link to a related thread in a different tribe in the meta-tribe (or maybe anywhere, but maybe it should be tested within meta-tribes first, to see how it works) appears at the bottom or side of that post. it'd be a cool way of cross-indexing one conversation into another. people might really get into it. its often hard to tell whats going on in a given thread just by looking at headings. they drift & take on lives of their own.
Also, another feature of meta-tribe members is that the creator of given thread could designate it a trans-tribe *thread*, if he/she thought it was relevent to both tribes (reversible by either moderator). that way, the same heading would appear, and a little symbol could appear indicating that it was a cross-post, so if you'd already read that thread on another tribe, you'd know not to bother looking at it.
I hafta really say, i think offering the option of more than one moderator is a good one. it may make mergers less scary, less competitive, more likely.
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 12:25 AM> .. if i am finding that i have little interest in a particular tribe... i will leave it
sorry, gotta respond to this one too. I think this idea fosters competition, which can introduce annoying politics.
also, if a tribe dries up because a bigger one absorbed its members' interest, do we want to lose interesting material accrued in its early stages, because that tribe gets deleted? or would it be nicer to simply merge that tribe into the one that absorbed its membership, so the more interesting threads can be preserved and continued..? -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 2:39 PM>> >> > .. if i am finding that i have little interest in a particular tribe... i will leave it >> >>
>> sorry, gotta respond to this one too. I think this idea fosters competition, which can introduce annoying politics. >>
Ah, you mean like on Y**** Groups? Where people will join a group specifically for the purpose of spamming that group's members with private email about how their OWN forum, on the same topic, is MUCH better? <:| [If they're really sophisticated, the offlist spams will come from a different profile than the one they used to join their "competitor" group... that way, they don't run the risk of getting unsubbed when the moderator figures out what's going on.]
And then you have all kinds of fun stuff like "Well, she unsubscribed me from HER group, so I'm not going to allow her to join MINE..." but meanwhile, you've both got friends and/or sockpuppets subscribed as "spies" on each other's forums. ::le sigh::
However, so far, I've been pleasantly surprised at how much more mature and articulate the Tribe.net community members seem to be -- I hope it stays that way, once the great hordes start to sign on.
[One reason why I'm generally in favor of the rep-economy system that y'all were describing; but that's another thread entirely, isn't it?]
Best,
Kathy L.
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 1:46 PMI agree with MS SPELL on this issue...there could be totally different things which people are interested in even if it sounds the same.
Let the people who join these tribes make up which one they choose to be in. I think it;s better all around.
-mykl
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 7:50 AMRedundant tribes: There should be the ability to merge a tribe and have co-moderators/co-creators. In that way you wouldn’t loose the history of one or both tribes. Merging should be voluntary.
Cross-linked threads: I’m not in support of it because it could add a lot of information to a tribe’s posting board and the original point of the tribe could be lost. Again, have the function in place but make it a voluntary feature.
Meta-tribes: One of the distinct benefits of tribes as they currently are set up: even similar tribes can have a different spin on a particular topic (local, virtual grass-roots content). Meta-tribes may become similar to the major radio corporation scenario where so much information is shared that the local flavor gets lost. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 8:23 AMConferences, where one could find related tribes could be an idea... -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 1:53 PMThese are all excellent ideas. Many of our power users have requested a feature that would let them designate Associate Moderators, and we're working on that.
Rather than consolidate Tribes, I'd like to know what you think of an idea that came from one of our Tribe Moderator meetings: Tribe Rings.
A Ring would connect Tribes that have a similar central topic, so you could join/form a ring to find all the related Tribes on our service. It would also be a good way to solve the cross-posting issue.
And it would make Events/Listings even more powerful, as you could publish your content to a group of related Tribes, instead of one Tribe at a time.
Pray, discuss. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Fri, November 7, 2003 - 9:42 AMTribe rings sounds like a good way to handle affiliation without over-complicating or adding a great deal of code overhead.
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Fri, November 7, 2003 - 1:59 PMI'm definitely in favor of some way of Tribal affiliation (voluntary on the part of the moderators or creators).
I wish I could understand how Choz' idea would work, but I'm not focusing well right now. So a tribe ring sounds fine to me for the moment.
Why are redundant tribes a problem? Well, I understand that different tribes on the same subject will develop differing cultures and that some people may prefer one over the other. However, there are cases when people create a tribe because they don't necessarily look to see if a tribe already exists. Just in a few short months, the tribe browsing list is very long. Not fast to download and not easy to read.
Anything that helps reduce redundancy and deadwood and makes it easier to find the tribes you want is a good thing.
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 4:00 PMI dunno. I like the very tribey feeling of the Tribes. I say if there are two tribes dedicated to the exact same matter, let them war, and the winner stays!
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 8:05 PMI don't really get what the problem with having more than one tribe on the same (or very similar) topics is? Isn't the point of Tribe.net to promote like creativity and foster an environment where people with similar views can come together? What's with all the politics and the "My tribe is better than yours" attitude? - Wouldn't it be better for everyone to just get along?
I do like the idea of links to other tribes though. Like a webring; Triberings... -
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Sorry it's so long.
Thu, November 6, 2003 - 9:50 PM(Note: I rant her, but I have a great idea, I think, that's been brewing in my head for a while)
I am not a fan of webrings. I use in-page links and search results to find my interests in the Web, usually. When I use webrings, it seems to bring up a lot of dead pages, redundant material, and poorer sites than the one I found first. If those things could be addressed in a Tribering, I would be interested. Offhand, however, I think having a related tribes list would be better in general. Rings are effectively mandated reciprocity. Sounds great, but basically adds credibility to sub-par sites and takes from good ones. Besided, If I am moderating a tribe, it would be nicer to have individual control of what other Tribes are reccommended by that tribe. And recommended lists are highly usable.
Tribe.net has an opportunity, thanks to the development of it's social-networking software, to create something far better than a list of "cool links" or a web-ring". For a lack of terminology, I would call it an dynamic link system, And I don't think anybody but the Soci-Soft people would try it. Yet.
I imaging a web of tribes being similar to the users themselves, where each tribe has a recommended reading list, as well as a list of what tribes are recommending it. Unlike people profiles, I do not think it should be neccessarily mutual. Perhaps that's a flag you could set for a group. However if you do mutually recommend each other, it is signified in bold on the list, rather than taking two places.
All the other cool things you can do with people profiles could be done with tribecards, then. You could look at related tribes in degrees, mainly.
Thanks to the structure of Tribe.net, It would be easy to just let me visit a tribe from the directory/message/etc., and recommend it from a tribe I'm subscribed to in a few clicks, no typing. Voila. A graphicy, hyperlinked title and a description, with almost no labor on my part. And if it's lame, natch, it should be poster/moderator removable.
The nicest part is not having to deal with a next> last< format, and not having to go through crummy tribes to get to another good one. And the knowledge that somebody directly in that tribe vouches for the relevance of the link. And you don't have to recommend any tribe just because it is in the same ring as a tribe you think compliments your own.
I do not think a # of recommended tribes limit should be instituted unless it causes page loading issues, since some tribes are about other tribes and will get long lists. (
tribeoftribesabouttribes.tribe.net ) hehehe... I'm ready... -
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Re: Sorry it's so long.
Fri, November 7, 2003 - 1:51 AMgreat Idea choz, although we could have both,
then the tribe crew could see which gets used
personally I'd like a hybrid between the tribering/conference thingy and the choz dynamic link system -
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Re: Sorry it's so long.
Fri, November 7, 2003 - 9:48 AMI think I favor a hybrid, too. I especially like the idea of each tribe being able to choose whether or not it wants to be affiliated with any given member of the ring or dynamic list.
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Re: Sorry it's so long.
Fri, November 7, 2003 - 2:03 PMI think that's a great idea, Choz, for all the reasons you said.
I think it could also avoid the need to merge tribes for the sake of not losing old material from one tribe if everyone moves to the "newer, better" version. If you want to read old material, go to the old tribe, linked from the new tribe. Not terribly convenient, but at least the old tribe is there. Of course, then it'd be nice to have some way for the old tribe to be 'frozen' by its moderator so that people can't post new messages or threads.
I still think it'd be nice to have the option to merge tribes though. Anyway, don't reply to this message to talk about merging (unless its in the context of Choz's idea). I don't want to hijack the thread! -
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Re: Sorry it's so long.
Fri, November 7, 2003 - 9:23 PMI don't have ANY interest in linking tribes to the ones i created, thats why i created the ones i did.....people can be parts of many tribes, i belone to hip parents AND freaky moms and dads, similar BUT sooooooooooooooooo different and i get something unique from each, i don't want the cross pollintaion, if you will, to dilute either or change them into some homoginized conglomerate.
my 2cents
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Fri, December 29, 2006 - 7:46 AMWas this ever resolved. I know of several almost inacive tribes that might be strnegthened with a merger. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Fri, December 29, 2006 - 7:49 AMPlease excuse my horrible spelling! I iam definitely interested in how to merge a tribe or tribes with each other. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 1:54 PMUnless things have changed since I left the company, and with a skeleton crew I doubt they have, there's no way to merge tribes. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 3:06 PMA merger should be easy with existing tools.
1) Make sure mods of both tribes are in agreement about it in principle.
2) Poll members of both tribes to see how they feel about the idea.
3) If all looks good, publicly request that all members of one tribe (the one to be killed) join new tribe. Give people at least a week to move.
4) Delete old tribe.
What's so difficult? -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 6:22 PMWhat's difficult is that you would generally want to merge the existing content. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Sun, December 31, 2006 - 3:30 AM"What's difficult is that you would generally want to merge the existing content."
Yeah, you'd have to toss it. But that's arguably not much of a loss, considering that the main reason mentioned for merging tribes is lack of activity -- so you wouldn't be losing much, no? -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Mon, January 1, 2007 - 2:00 PM"Yeah, you'd have to toss it. But that's arguably not much of a loss, considering that the main reason mentioned for merging tribes is lack of activity -- so you wouldn't be losing much, no?"
Well, any "hot" threads can be transferred via cut-and-paste.
But chances are, "hot" threads will be restarted anyway, about eight bajillion times. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Mon, January 1, 2007 - 9:13 PMHow many squintillions are in a bajillion, anyway? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Mon, January 1, 2007 - 9:44 PMEleventeen, by English units. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 5:27 PMhmm who knew my son wasn't just making it up when he assured me there was an eleventeen.
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Wed, January 3, 2007 - 11:11 AMAlso, how do you decide which tribe is the one that is to be killed off? Assuming both tribes have little to no activity and about the same number of members.
How long would you give people to respond to the poll? Do you extend the poll until a certain percentage has voted, or would it be a fixed amount of time? There are so many people who only log on every few months, or less. Especially when we're talking inactive tribes. I mean, what if it turns out that 80% of the members didn't want the tribes merged, but 3% out of the 5% who logged on during the time of the polling did?
I think it's a bad idea. If people don't want the redundant tribes, they'll unsubscribe and the tribe will die by itself. I've seen a few times where a moderator of a redundant tribe wanted to kill it off, but the members didn't. So the moderator left, they picked a new moderator, and the tribe stayed as it was. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Wed, January 3, 2007 - 11:35 AM"I think it's a bad idea."
I don't agree -- I think that it's both a judgment call and a matter of the mod's evaluation of an individual tribe. Sometimes it's probably appropriate, in other cases not. Tribe mods should get to decide what constitutes "active" for their particular tribe, since they best know what that means for their own group. Every tribe is a unique situation. But just because there are no hard and fast rules for this doesn't mean that it shouldn't, on occasion, be done.
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Mon, August 13, 2007 - 3:13 PMI like this idea. I'm moderating two tribes that are more or less dead, but the members and content should just be folded into one of several simlilar tribes. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Mon, August 13, 2007 - 4:22 PMThis thread was started ages ago. But since it has come up again I'll add my two cents.
I don't like the idea of merging tribes. I belong to tribes that are similar to other tribes. I've chosen the ones I'm in carefully, by looking at the content, and the words written on the top of the tribe page, and sometimes by looking at the moderator. The subject matter may be nearly the same as another tribe, but the people who contribute in one tribe may give it an entirely different flavor than the other similar tribe.
I'd probably leave a tribe if it merged with another similar tribe that I didn't feel a kinship with.
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Tue, August 14, 2007 - 9:54 AMI am in a couple tribes with no activity.
I miss th einteraction.
I see apossibility fo rmerger but wont move to suggest it. Truth is even if I did suggest it no one would read it. The tribes have served their purpose and for all purposes are dead.
I dont get how the business model is impacted if no one reads or posts.
personally I go to other tribes now -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Tue, August 14, 2007 - 10:38 AMdead tribes are sometimes re-vived, with the right voodoo spells......
love all-ways,
mem -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Tue, August 14, 2007 - 12:30 PMi also say no. it IS the nuances, and the membership. the best thing is that we have the choice to look at, read, participate as we see fit. sometime i do go back and read some stellar old threads from time to time. what you might want to consider, is that many more read than write.
and anecdotally, i had no idea just how many people read what i wrote, until i saw them in person, and they commented on specific content of one of my tribes or my blog. i never would have known, because they never once posted a comment (which is really the only way we can judge that). sometimes i wish there were a counter on my blog and/or tribes to see what was viewed and how many times. -
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Tue, August 14, 2007 - 12:31 PMand for my biggest tribe, even if no one posts on the threads for a while, there is a steady trickle of new members, so go figure.
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Re: please SoUnD OfF - tribe mergers & meta-tribes
Wed, August 15, 2007 - 6:07 AMI mod a tribe virtually no one else posts on....figured I was doing it for folks Googlin' topics and potential tribe interest...til it got linked as a 'site of the day' by a 'trade' site last winter.
I was told by that webmaster, that Tribe is in-flight fare for some people....
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Cuts into Ad Revenue
Mon, August 13, 2007 - 8:08 PMMergers are good but I suspect that these will be rejected because it cuts into the basic ad-revenue model.
Visits to dead tribes = revenue-generating ad "hits".
Under the current business model, six crappy tribes are better than two good ones. -
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Re: Cuts into Ad Revenue
Tue, August 14, 2007 - 6:10 AM....I might run into two tribes with similar "interests"- but one's just funnier.....nuances really matter here.
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