Freedom of Speech

I do agree your tone is reasonable in this thread. And if it was one post, or if it was about constructive stuff about tribe then great. But it isn't about tribe, it almost always (and I just got done looking through posts in tribeideas) about free ass vs tribe. which might on it's own still be fine if we had not been being attacked by the spam for months already. I admit the people who were doing it in the tribes I was in were people I liked and I can't speak to your past posts as I can't remember any of them specifically since you guys have the same avatar and I have not been active in the tribe tribes that are the only ones I share with you.

I don't have any problem with your avatar.

Maybe if you could think of it like if someone just keeps ragging on you about something until you just do not want to hear about it anymore. Then someone else comes by and keeps talking about it. Maybe they do it more resonably...but by now it grates on your nerves and it's not just in one place it's in a bunch of posts...in several tribes. Talk about whatever you want...but if you come to my home and talk about how much better your home is...that's rude. Saying hey have you thought about adding a plant here? is one thing. Saying "at MY house, we would never be without a plant there...I'm not sure how you can even live here" is rude. Or maybe it gets shortened to "oh...at *my* house we have a plant, why don't *you* have a plant?" But ya know what? I have a black thumb and plants are right for everyone and I'm sick of hearing about it.

Again I'm not saying don't respectfully address issues about tribe stuff. But man don't come to my housewarming party and diss my house.

Or maybe you have a friend whose always trying to sell you something? You like them, their discussion is interesting...but somehow they always throw in how you could really use some of their product? and you just want them to stop!

>> I'm also by no means stating or implying that people staying on Tribe are stupid, <<

Well, you might not *mean* it that way, Sonya, but it *is* how it reads to others, unfortunately.

And there *are* others who are also, in fact, being quite explicit about how they think that anyone who stays on and posts to Tribe is out and out immoral - and not "cool".

It just gets really old to always have another service promoted every single cotton pickin' time anything comes up that you do differently than is done here. You may not be saying the specific words "Leave Tribe and come over to FA instead because we're better in every way", but that intent *is* clearly behind what you do say.

Years ago, when I first started sysopping on Compuserve, there was an actual rule prohibiting promoting competing services, or even really discussing them at all. It just simply Wasn't Done. I'm glad it's no longer a hard and fast rule, and I would *not* like to see such a rule instituted here or anywhere else, but I do think it should be as self-evident that one ought not to use one service as a platform for promoting another.

I mean, you wouldn't go into a local restaurant and start going around to all the tables or making an announcement about how good the competition across town is. You wouldn't go to a friend's house and complain about the food or the service or anything else you didn't like about how they entertained you, etc.

Discreet mentions - sure. Bringing it up in the context of a situation where you offer something that is not available on Tribe, yes. Putting a short line about it in your sig line (if we had sig lines here), why not. I'm guilty of things like that myself upon occasion, and occasionally a little bit *too* often. But the endless "We do it better on FA" responses to virtually *everything* you don't like about Tribe has, in fact, gotten way old.

We *know* about FA. Those who perceive value there are already over there and not here. The rest of us just ain't interested, for whatever our reasons are, and the repeated promotions are just turning a lot of us entirely off.

I totally agree with you about the problems and limitations of the TOU and so on here. I, too, am deeply worrried about increasing and further proposed legislation that is intended to curtail our freedom of speech, and indeed, all of our freedoms. But the place to fight those battles is in the courts and at the ballot box, and through grassroots efforts to gather support for our positions, in blogs, the media, public places, etc. - not by pitting one company or organization against another, especially when the reality of how these regulations have been enforced here is that by and large, they have *not* been.

Yes, there have been instances to the contrary, but for the most part, we are still functionally operating here much the same as we were a year ago before the new TOU went into effect, and no one has tried to stop the vast majority of the kind of content we are concerned about censorship with.

The simple fact of that matter is that FA, too, is subject to the very same laws and regulations, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. At some point, the Injustice Department may very well catch up with you, too.

And you don't create change in an organization, if that is your intent, by leaving it and starting something to compete with it. You create it by working from within. Leaving sites like Tribe because they are attempting to comply with the law, however misguided the law may be, just plays right into the hands of those who would shut us down. It means that the bad guys have won.

Wendy

There's been a few old timers showing back up in the last couple days and it's awesome.

Speaking of... Hi Rick. :)

I think it's time right now to enjoy the new changes and see where this goes without a whole bunch of bitching. Why take the goddamn fun out of every last freaking thing. why? why? why?

"I'm not buying back into the neighborhood without some assurances"

I think reassurance isn't ever really in the cards ANYWHERE.

New owners and possibly a new approach. Watch and see how it feels. If it feels like a place to be, then be there. If not, make suggestions and try to change it or leave.

But who worth a damn can make reassurances about the future? It might be different, or it might not.

Or, to stick with your metaphor, DON'T buy, just rent for a while.